Real talk with Mike Bromley about navigating burnout and mental health in entrepreneurship

Mike Bromley is the CEO of Beyond Billables, a branding agency for professional firms across the globe—and he's also my former boss. In today's episode, I'm chatting with Mike candidly about his journey through burnout and navigating a tough period in his personal and business life. I believe this is such an important topic for all business owners, and it's something we really need to talk about more often.

In today's episode, we chat about:
– How Mike navigated the decision to walk away from a lucrative business and the challenges that came next in order to prioritise his mental health
– Why listening to our internal voice is super beneficial to your health and the burnout warning signs to look out for
– How finding your mental health ‘sunscreen' and giving back to yourself is critical to maintaining balance
– When sharing and accepting your struggles can offer clarity and confidence in navigating the path forward
– The overarching importance of resetting your priorities in your business and coming to terms with doing less when the need requires

 

Today, I'm chatting with a good friend, mentor, and actually my former boss, Mike Bromley from Beyond Billables. Mike and I started working together back in 2016 when I started my very first business, quit my corporate job and then ran out of money and needed to get a part-time job. 

So I started working with Mike right about the time when he burnt his existing business to the ground and I got to play a bit of a part with Mike and his business partner at the time, building a completely new business from scratch, which was wild.

And today we're talking about Mike's experience and his journey through burnout, anxiety, depression, and all of the mental health things that nobody really talks about in the business world, but that are a really big issue. 

 Mike, welcome to Imperfect Action. It feels really interesting to have you on the other side of the microphone, considering I was your first-ever podcast guest. So Mike, for our listeners who don't know you as well as I do, please introduce who are you and what you do.

“I'm Mike Bromley. I owned Beyond Billables. We're a branding agency for professional firms. I primarily work with legal and financial services, firms in Australia and around the world. So we do brand strategy, brand design, websites, and ultimately social content and help them build their brand and really stand out in their markets.”

 

How Mike navigated the decision to walk away from a lucrative business and the challenges that came next in order to prioritise his mental health.

The reason I really wanted to chat with you today on the show is that you have been through a bit of a journey in the last couple of years through burnout and mental health, and you are also somebody who's generally pretty open in sharing your experiences. I think last year was probably where it all started for you, right? That's where it got really bad and I'd love it if you could share a little bit about what was going on inside and outside your business that started to contribute to this burnout that you experienced.

“Well, I'll actually go back further because I think I really started to burn out as a recruiter when I ran the recruitment business. So, for the listeners, I was a lawyer and then I ran an international legal recruitment consultancy, which I owned as well, in the end. And I was really burnt out from the hours and the stress it felt like being at the casino all the time because of other people's decisions, linked to our outcomes and I really struggled to communicate. I struggled with just constantly being on and I recognised that I had a lot of issues around just managing the anxiety of it which kind of drove me to look for an alternative. 

And I didn't know what that was for a lot of years and for a little bit of time we were working together through that and in fact embracing content and, the creative side and strategic side helped me recognise that. 

But, in a lot of respects, I walked away from that recruitment business, a very successful, very established business, working for the best law firms in the world, and it cost me a lot of money and I did that because of stress and anxiety and burnout. 

And then, starting a new business. My business partner and I went separate ways and then I basically spent about 15 months growing it from a thousand dollars a month to I think five or six in the team by 2020 when Covid hit everything halved. I managed to survive that because of the lessons that I've learned and then got through all that and we were growing and we're just doing work.

And then, last year, I started 2022 with this great attitude. We're going to make the most, I'm going to do X, Y, and Z and then my wife ended up, getting diagnosed with breast cancer in February and everything changed again and I had to take a big step back from a business perspective. I really had to work out and think about what my priorities were. And that was being there for her and being there for kids and coming to terms with what that looked like from a work perspective.

Also try to make it look like nothing could change from an outsider's perspective because you do get worried about people's perception, especially for your business when you run a service business and go through relatively private things, I just had to step back. 

So I've got an amazing team and we just looked at what I didn't need to get done and what needed to get done and what we needed to focus on was clients and our work and what I didn't need to do was the millions of other projects I tend to run at because of my shiny ball syndrome entrepreneur brain. 

So I put a lot of that on hold and I had to and for most of it, I was pretty stoic about things but it definitely wore me down over the course of the year and I was really anxious and a little bit of depression by the end of the year. And I've been kind of managing that for the last eight months for better and for worse at different times. 

But it's a journey so when I really look at it, it did start back a long time ago and I've been thinking about what if I had made better decisions for my own health 10 years ago, 15 years ago maybe it wouldn't have cost me what it had cost me and then so now it has to be a priority. So, it's made me just look back at these times and reassess the price of the decisions over time.”

 

The mistakes that Mike has made along that journey.

“So I think the shiny bone syndrome is less mistake just who I am and that's cool. And that's why I love things and I get so invested and it's fine, but I probably didn't listen to the people around me enough when they were telling me, Mike, relax. Like, you know, you're very stressed and I certainly didn't recognise that and then the reality of managing as opposed to trying to fix things as well. 

I don't have any regrets about anything. I just think I'm on a journey like everyone else, and I have known and used things like my Brazilian jiu-jitsu training and physical training to help manage situations for 10, 15 years of martial arts. So it's not like I was unaware. It's probably just that could have committed to looking after myself a little bit more in a real direct way instead of indirectly saying, You'll be right and you're strong enough to get through it.” 

And I think that's something that far too many business owners do is when work's really busy and it's like, oh, well I'm just going to not go to the gym today because I need to do this instead. Or I'm just going to order Uber Eats instead of cooking a healthy dinner and then it just kind of compounds and you hit that breaking point. 

 

Signs that Mike noticed when he experienced burnout.

“Bad sleep? My wife said, why are you cranky all the time? Like, honestly, I could tell that my own relationships weren't very good, they just weren't as good as they could have been because I was short-tempered at times, like not short-tempered, that's overstating it, but you know, a bit shorter than I necessarily am.

But the sleep thing was a really big thing for me. So the two and three o'clock wake-up was a really strong sign. I've always been quite anxious and I now understand the anxiety and how a lot of it for me is just very physical. 

So I kind of thrived through that but there have just been different points where people made me realise that I didn't need to be that anxious guy to get the work done because I thought that for a long time I thought, no, I have to be like this to get the work done. This is what drives me. Once I realised I didn't, and I could still get the work done, that was a revelation to me but it took me nearly two decades of working to realise that actually part of it has a lot going on with your own perceptions of control, of what you do, wanting to make an impact in what you do but at the end of the day, I've found that taking a step back has been just a lot better and the results are just as good, if not better, by not forcing.

 

How finding your mental health ‘sunscreen' and giving back to yourself is critical to maintaining balance.

“One thing that you did say before and a really good analogy that my psychologist gave me was just talking about putting your sunscreen on and with your mental health which is training every day for me, or going for a walk, that's my sunscreen. That's what keeps me going. If I don't have it on, I get burnt and we've developed these habits and that was a really good analogy for me because I could relate to it because every time I go out and sun, I've got a hat on or I've got sunscreen on and just have to do that for my mental health.” 

Have there been any other things? I know you've mentioned training, but have there been any other things that have been that mental health sunscreen for you? 

“I've tried meditation, struggled. I think comedy, getting some laughs into my day, and a bit of music and singing. I'm generally in a good, happy place, even if I'm just singing along in the car and it's a gauge to me. It's what kind of, where am I at mentally?

But certainly, Brazilian jiu-jitsu and martial arts have been the central piece for me because it's just time when I'm completely focused on that thing and not stuck in my head.” 

 

When sharing and accepting your struggles can offer clarity and confidence in navigating the path forward.

What else did the process of getting back to normal or relatively normal look like for you?

“Just looking at my priorities and also just being thankful for what we have and what we are. And I've got the most amazing family and for me, it can be a double-edged sword because I put a lot of pressure on myself to be the best dad, the best husband, the best thing I could be, and within that context, judged myself pretty harshly in the last few years just because of the reality. 

But actually, it was more about that I just craved time with my kids and I just want to make the best of it while I can. And I think just reconnecting to what I really value, which is being healthy and spending good time with my family. Getting back to having a dream and a goal to travel and reignite some passions around things like that.

And I needed to seek help. I was really glad that I was actually at a conference about three years ago and I heard someone on stage talking about A D H D, and my wife was poking me in the ribs the whole time saying, that's you.

And actually prompted me to finally go and see a psychologist because I'd never seen one. And he's been hugely helpful in the last three years. I was really fortunate that started in January, 2020. So I had that support through the Covid situation and reframing a lot of things like that.

And then last year, engagement with my doctor as well, and looking at medication and other things that can help and I've been through a few and had different experiences. So just getting the attitude that being well mentally and putting yourself in a position where you're enjoying life because you're happier.”

And I think that's like the very first step, right? I mean, I started working with a therapist in 2020 as well, and the biggest thing that I've learned I think so far in therapy is before you can change anything, you have to accept it. You can't change something that you can't accept and just by accepting it, this is how it is, this is the situation, that kind of dissolves 90% of the stress around it anyway. 

 

The overarching importance of resetting your priorities in your business and coming to terms with doing less when the need requires.

Mike, you are a classic overachiever, and you know, having known you for a while now, your first reaction when there is a problem is to just do more, to throw more energy at it, throw more resources at it, more time at it. How did you start to come to terms with doing less? 

“I was particularly wise about it, Steph. I just got to a point last year where I couldn't do anything else. I was trapped by my business and my situation. I really should have taken time out but I wasn't in a position to, for lots of reasons. Then that was a real huge wake-up call and it wasn't financial, it was more just the reality of running a business and the reality at home and everything like that. And so I think that was a huge wake-up call for me. 

Until like November, December last year, coincidentally we had great news by then. Everything had worked out incredibly well. Like treatment couldn't have gone any better but that's when it really hit me a load of bricks because I got through the rest of the time and so I couldn't do anything else. I really had to step back in November.”

And I think that's also such a difficult thing for the overachiever brain to come to terms with is that this isn't something that just goes away overnight. It's not something you can just quickly meditate your way out of, and then you're back to normal.

But I thought what you said earlier about you are always pretty motivated. I find that really interesting because, for me, I've never really had a severe burnout, but whenever I'm starting to get to that point where it's like, oh, I've done a little bit too much. I'm starting to burn out a little bit, that's when my motivation drops. And often what keeps me going through that is being motivated by fear and I wonder, is that something that you can relate to as well?

“Yeah. Hundred percent.”

 

Mike’s advice to those starting to feel a little bit demotivated.

For somebody else who might be in those early stages of, you know, they starting to feel a little bit demotivated and maybe wondering, oh, maybe I'm a little bit burnt out. With your benefit of hindsight now, what advice would you give to them? Like, what do you wish you had done a few years ago? 

“I just wish I'd put my sunscreen on, I'd learn that lesson. I wish I had taken it more seriously that there was a real cost. Like physical, financial, emotional, relational costs all across the board. I would've recognised that, I would've known that I had more support there and that you could make things better as well. It wasn't just the necessity that if that's how I have to be just burning myself out until I burn out. 

And this is what I have to remind myself of now all the time that good habits, good food. Yeah, there's such a link between food, alcohol, and our daily habits. Again, I'm just kind of learning this now. It's hard when you're in your mid-forties and you've got bad habits. Keep making the same mistakes, but you know, learning the effect of too much alcohol for me and that feeding in and the wrong food, feeding in is hugely impactful from a mental health perspective.” 

And it's really hard. I mean, we, Australia in particular, do have such a culture of you get home from work and you open a beer or you have a glass of wine and that's very normal in our society and then realising having the wisdom of like, Ooh, I know if I drink a little bit tonight, I'm not going to sleep as well, and then I'm going to feel awful tomorrow and then it becomes this vicious circle.

 

With all this happening, how Mike shows up to the team.

And then with having a team and being a leader through. While you're navigating all of this, how did you show up for your team? How'd you communicate to your team that, Hey, guys, like this is kind of what's going on. What kind of conversations did you have with them? 

“It was hard. I've always been lucky, like it's always been pretty adult saying. Obviously the situation, it's difficult. I'm struggling and this is what I need to do about it. I've just enjoyed the people I've got to work with and for me, it's never been a burden from that perspective for me. No. I just told everyone what's going on. And even if I say, ah, look, I think next week I'm going to have a quieter time of it, which means my days, I might be at work from, you know, eight till two, and then I'll have the afternoons to myself. 

I'll generally like just let the team know we're completely flexible. I've got a completely flexible attitude towards work as well with the team. So, no, very open and I think it's a good thing because we're a human business. I've never pretended to be anything else and I've just been really lucky, a core bit of who I hire, really responsible self-starters and probably who been through stuff in life as well and have the personality to understand it.”

Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, thinking about like the next few steps in your business, like the next iteration of your business, you know, what does that look like going forward? And what are you going to be doing differently to make sure that you are managing your stress levels and avoid yourself burning out like this again in the future?

“Being more patient. That's been a big thing for me. Taking away the, the pressure of X outcome from a financial perspective or whatever perspective. So just focusing on the controllables which for us is doing really good quality work, first and foremost and hiring people to do things, taking things off my plate and stop being a control freak about things, that's a huge bit, right? 

And like, I'm like a perfectionist control freak with high expectations and I think I've certainly recently seen how great it is when I've hired some great people who I don't need to over manage. I actually don't overmanaging people anyway. It's just not a strength. So hire smarter and the aim is to keep building out the business. 

So we're doing better work and it's good people, and everyone's happy doing what they're doing and they're progressing in their own profession and their own skills.

And I think that'll look after itself and then beyond that, just putting a sunscreen on every day and starting to take holidays.” 

 

Mike’s imperfect action.

“I think started a podcast way back when was this great imperfect action. I've been thinking about it recently because I'm starting mine up again and I wasn't even clear on why or what I was going to end up in. I just knew it was a good idea and it took us seven or eight months to finally start it, and through all of that, I really didn't know it would end up in this where I am now.

But I'm so glad that I went on that journey because the people I've met, what I learned about myself, what I learned about brand and business. I think stepping out and taking that big anxious podcast risk was imperfect action. 

Lots of what I do is imperfect action because I think a lot of us what differentiates a lot of entrepreneurs is the building the plane on the way down and you have to be a little bit crazy, to do what we do because a lot crazy because the reality is that I'd start a lot of things without that perfect outcome.” 

 

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