Why you’re procrastinating, overworking and “stuck” in your business (with Masha Kay)

Masha Kay is a nervous system and breathwork coach who specialises in identifying ways to regulate your nervous system to help overcome procrastination and overwork in your business. In today's episode, Masha and I deep dive into the very real ‘fight or flight' that can come from a dysregulated nervous system.

– Understanding the 3 states of your nervous system and the triggers to be aware of that can cause it to mobilise and immobilise
– How our ‘personality traits' are often borne from a place of self-preservation, driven by our nervous system
– Why preparing for dysregulation in your business is so important and the benefit of creating your own ‘toolkit' to counteract it
– Understanding the energy behind self-sabotage and the ‘do-more' state of mind and strategies to reset

You can connect with Masha on Instagram @mashakay or check out her website Mashakay.com

 

 
Today I'm bringing in a guest to chat about a couple of the things that I know are holding you back from growing your business and keeping you stuck at the level that you are at and that might look like procrastination. It might be overworking. It might be these behaviours that we tend to refer to as self-sabotaging behaviuors. 

And today's guest, Masha Kay is a nervous system and breathwork coach. Her big, I guess, secret sauce is How you can use that nervous system regulation to break through the plateaus in your business, to get yourself unstuck, to overcome the procrastination, the overworking, all of the things, the busy that keeps us at the level we are at in our businesses.

Now, without further ado, let's jump into the chat with Marsha.

 

Marsha, welcome to Imperfect Action. I'm so excited to have you here. And as I was saying before we hit record, I feel like I've already learned a lot from you especially around like all of this nervous system regulation that you really are an expert in, and I want to kick this interview off by asking you, how did you get into nervous system regulation?

 

“So first of all I'm so excited to be here! I'm so honored to be here. I feel like your content is just so relevant to where I was a few years ago and you know a lot of things honestly, I started following you are still relevant now so I'm just so excited to be chatting with you but you're right I don't think anyone sets out to be a nervous system and breathwork coach.

and it's kind of interesting. 

I came here in a very roundabout way, to be honest with you, my background is actually not in this at all. My background is in actuarial science and economics so that's where I started my career. I pretty much would say it's 180 degree difference from where I am right now so that's where I started my career. I was kind of like a typical overachiever just like always doing the right thing. 

And somewhere down the lines a few years into that I was like wait I really love doing this. I've actually tutored since early high school So I always loved teaching and I was like maybe I could help other people with this journey I kind of have a unique perspective and so that kind of got me into coaching but I started as a holistic health coach. 

And so that's what I started doing and then at some point decided to leave my corporate job and start my business and then that's when it got really hard because it's like okay you have the information, you have the desire, you know, I thought I set myself up well but it was just so overwhelming and so I started looking for more tools that were like a little more business oriented or just like whatever I can grasp too.

And somewhere down the line I took a workshop around the nervous system and when I learned about it I'm like Oh that's what's happening right now I'm getting super dysregulated because there's just such a lack of stability.

And so that's when I learned about the nervous system and I just started applying it to myself to help me kind of move forward in my coaching business. And then as I started working with clients over and over I would be telling them what to do and a lot of the time they knew what to do but they were like I can't do it, what's wrong with me? And I would have to explain Oh, that's your nervous system. And I just realised so much of my coaching is really about that that has to be the foundation. A lot of us to know the right things to do. We just don't know how to do them because our nervous system gets in the way.”

 

What are some of the ways that your nervous system can impact how you show up in your business.

“It can honestly impact every area of how you show up in your business because if you think about it, we're talking about your nervous system. Your nervous system has these three states without going into detail one state is a state of safety where you feel relatively safe and then there are two states of feeling dysregulated where your nervous system doesn't believe you are safe and so it acts in all these different ways. And the cool thing, kind of the scary thing, is that when it feels unsafe every system of your body mobilises, right?

So your vision changes, your saliva changes, your digestion changes, the way your brain works changes, muscle flow, breath, heart, you name it, it all changes, right? And so the way this could show up in your business like there's countless ways but for some people you become more busy. It feels like it's constantly not enough, I constantly need to be doing more, filling up your schedule, constantly feeling like I need to be shaming and blaming myself or I need to be blaming and shaming other people. So that's called we call this the sympathetic state and that's kind of like the fight or flight response.

And really it's just your nervous system's trying to keep you safe by mobilising. It's doing all of these but the problem is in the state of your prefrontal cortex which is the part of your brain just responsible for executive functioning. So all the functioning you need to run your business, you know, long-term decision making, creativity, planning, strategising, it starts to go dark and so you start doing but you're doing it in random directions. 

So one way it's staying safe by taking action and another way is trying to stay safe by taking no action.”

 

What can trigger the two different states, and is it a case of different triggers that would trigger you to mobilise versus shut down or is it like a person-by-person kind of basis?

“Yeah that's a great question. So there's kind of two parts to this question. The first part is there are some things that we all have in common that trigger our nervous systems. 

So specifically our nervous systems interpret Change, Uncertainty and Isolation as danger across the board. And I find that fascinating and I wonder if this was your experience too or the people that you work with like when I started working for myself, all three. Suddenly, I'm barely seeing anybody, I'm just alone in my apartment. Suddenly, there's complete uncertainty I have never had instability in income or anything like that. I knew exactly what I wanted to do up until that point and just constant change. Like I think I'm going to do this and then I have to do something else. So those things for me were just incredibly triggering but they're like across the board.”

 

Other signs that you might not be regulated.

“I think one big one, maybe this feels obvious, maybe it isn't, is very intense emotional responses. So when stressors happen, if it feels very intense like the world is ending, like this is everything, like you get this, like feeling that's a sign that you're getting dysregulated. 

Sometimes it could feel like our reactions are disproportionate and we can't quite tell why, that's a sign that there's some dysregulation happening that your nervous system is thinking what's happening now is actually what happened in the past and there's way more danger than is actually present. It could also manifest as physical sensations. 

I think people don't realise that when we get dysregulated our immune system shuts down, our digestion starts to shut down, and our reproductive organs start to shut down. So that's another sign of chronic dysregulation. 

Sometimes feeling like the world is against you or taking things a little bit more personally, also could be a sign of dysregulation because when we're dysregulated, we actually are not able to connect. We go into a state of protection which is the opposite of connection and so feeling connected to others becomes really hard and you know interacting with others becomes more difficult.

Perfectionism is an easy one but I think sometimes people think oh that's a personality trait like I'm just a perfectionist, it's like no that's actually a sign of dysregulation.”

 

Perfectionism vs. Procrastination.

“Yes, very similar. And I think procrastination is an interesting one because I think with procrastination there's just so much shame, right? So when we make that a part of our identity, you know, perfectionist, there could be like a little bit of like a humble brag to it. It's like Oh my worst qualities are I'm a perfectionist I do things well and so it's not the best but there's a little bit of pride associated with it sometimes.

But procrastination, there's usually a lot of shame of like I'm just not someone who can follow through on things, I'm just not capable of that and none of that is actually true. So what procrastination is actually is your nervous system is kind of doing the math and that thing that you're procrastinating is probably one that's to some degree painful. Maybe when you're doing it you kind of feel like a failure. Maybe it's really hard for you. Maybe it forces you to face certain insecurities you have, right?

And so your nervous system is like I don't want to do that, that hurts me. And so procrastination is your nervous system's way of keeping you away from the pain because your nervous system is just concerned with the short term. And so in the short term if it could just put off that thing then it's keeping you safe, it's keeping you away from that discomfort and so that's actually all that it is. And so it's definitely not a personality trait It's very much how you keep yourself safe because I can bet you're not procrastinating the things that feel really easy to you. You're procrastinating the hard things, that challenge you, that make you feel maybe a little insecure. That's your nervous system just trying to keep you safe.”

 

What are some of the mistakes that you see other business owners making that keep them in this trap of being dysregulated?

“I would say that's a major one and it's kind of like a chicken or the egg situation. Is it the busyness that creates the dysregulation or did the dysregulation create the busyness and it's often some combination, right? So often you'll use busyness to make yourself feel productive like you just want to check things off my to do list I just need to fill up my time, fill up my day, but then that leads you to not having time to kind of think more strategically and do things that really matter and then it leads you to feel really burned out and then that burnout creates more dysregulation.

I think another thing, I don't think this is wrong but I think this is something that creates dysregulation for a lot of people and I think it's we really need to teach business owners to regulate through this, it's the lack of stability in their businesses.

In general, if you're becoming a business owner there's a lot less stability and I think we don't consider how dysregulating that could be and so we're not thinking about that. We're not thinking okay how do I create stability? How do I make myself feel safe and we're kind of like Oh I'll just figure it out and to some degree that's that is good. You kind of just got to throw yourself in sometimes and start taking action but you need to kind of be working with your nervous system not just ignoring it and being like no it will get better once I'm making more money or something like that. 

So it's almost like not accounting for the fact that your business will dysregulate you and you almost need to be prepared for that and start taking action in preparation for that.”

 

Actions we can take to prepare.

“I think the first part is just being aware of what your nervous system is, what these states are, and starting to build out a toolkit for what are the things that give safety to your nervous system, what are the tools that you can use. 

And so it's the toolkits like building, understanding the nervous system, building out a toolkit understanding like when I get dysregulated what do I do, How do I know the differences between the sympathetic state versus that shutdown dorsal state, right? Because I would take different steps in each one so kind of like that understanding and starting to build out that toolkit I think is one piece.

And the second piece I think is kind of like what are the routines and daily actions that I take to create some structure and stability for myself. So maybe finances aren't going to be stable but we can create stability through the way we structure our day. We can create stability maybe by using a tool like breath work or journaling whatever resonates with you and is appropriate to your nervous system as something we do every day and having routines and rituals around that.

So I think that's a really big one. Of course, community and connection. That's a huge one for our nervous systems as well.

So I would say those kinds of two separate categories: the things you do daily to create stability and structure which includes community and routines and rituals and then kind of building out a toolkit for when your nervous system does get a little dysregulated.”

 

How you can start to notice those moments and change the way you react to them.

“Yes, absolutely! So again to me, it comes down to one. Can you start making time outside of those moments to start to understand your nervous system a little bit? Maybe start using those two. So let's say you say you want to journal next time I'm stressed but you never journal outside of that to expect yourself to lean towards that is going to be impossible. So maybe it's creating a ritual around that when you are feeling relatively regulated something you do every day. So just kind of like the intention is there but then it's also learning to kind of like practicing mindfulness, learning to befriend yourself and your nervous system and so in those moments of dysregulation, noticing them and just getting curious about them kind of like the way a scientist would and and I say that very intentionally because I think what a lot of us do when we're in that moment is we shame ourselves.” 

 

How do we get out of that cycle of “I need to be doing more because it will move my business forward”.

“It's where I always encourage people to start right and that is to understand that when we're in that do more state it's called the sympathetic. So that's the kind of fight or flight state. In that state, we have too much mobilising energy. Your body wants to fight like a tiger. It wants to fight, it wants to run, that's what that state was created for but there are no tigers. 

The tiger is your business, an email, a phone call. And so you have all this mobilising energy in your body but for most of us we're just sitting at a laptop and so that's when that starts to become overwhelming and there's anxiety and then we start the frantic, you start cleaning, you start organising, you start going through emails, whatever like your thing is but it's coming from the fact that you have too much energy in your body and nowhere for that energy to go and it's coming out as anxiety.

So in those moments, I encourage my clients to notice that there's too much energy in their bodies. Notice the frantic doing and get up and move that energy physically out of the body. Your body wants to fight something as silly as that might sound. Our bodies are still relatively primitive so the best thing you can do is get up, jump, shake, dance, go for a quick walk but intentionally, move energy out of your body before trying to come back and do anything strategic because by moving that energy you're moving to a more regulated state.

And then once you're in that regulated state your executive functioning the prefrontal cortex turns back on and then you could come back and be like Okay let me write out a to-do list. Let me think what is my goal here which actions are aligned with the goal and you could have that broader vision but at that moment that is not accessible to you no matter how hard you try that part of your brain is just offline.” 

 

Signs that somebody's nervous system is what’s keeping them stuck where they are.

“Honestly, the signs will be kind of spread out in all categories and there will be physical signs. So a lot of physical ailments we mentioned before there will be mental, there will be emotional, there will be more spiritual, more in terms of like how you relate to yourself but honestly I think one of the biggest things that we could be on the lookout for is how we're speaking to ourselves. I think it's a lot of the time like a telltale sign of where our nervous system is at. And so when we're in a dysregulated state, our thoughts will mirror that. Kind of like and I keep using these analogies because I think it's helpful for people to visualise it this way but if you were running from a tiger in that same analogy I used before it wouldn't make sense for you to have a lot of positive thoughts.

You wouldn't be like Oh everything's going to be great I'm so lucky, I'm so grateful. And so when we're dysregulated our thoughts reflect the state of our story about ourselves, the world, and specifically about our business.”

 

Masha’s imperfect action.

“The last time I took imperfect action was actually with creating my group program. So the group program that I have going now was the result of imperfect action. I think for the longest time I put off creating a group program because I was like well I don't know the exact thing I'm going to teach and I don't know how I'm going to cover everything and I kept putting it off and eventually my business coach is like you got to. You're going to practice what you preach like that's your perfectionism and you have to take imperfect action.”

 

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